李朝晖：我相信灵魂的存在

来源: http://photo.sina.com.cn/photog/ 新浪图片 作者: 李梦婷

　　【摄影师】李朝晖，湖北宜昌人。85年在北京大学学习生物专业，之后也一直从事与医疗相关
的工作。李朝晖的《大体》系列，拍摄一些刚刚离开鲜活人体的器官，其中大部分是医疗手术中切
下的，然后，在影像基底位置放上了一根标尺。长期的接触生老病死，使他产生了种种困惑，这也
成为他走向艺术的动力，自此他有了另一个身份-“受过科学训练的艺术家”。

　　新浪图片独家采访摄影师李朝晖，呈现作品背后的故事。

　　什么契机让您开始拍摄这组作品？

　　李：我是85年在北大读的生物学，最近13年也一直从事跟医疗相关的工作。这些经历，让我有
机会通过拍摄这组比较特殊的题材，来表达自己的想法。

　　摄影师算是你的另一个身份？

　　李：不严格的说，我是一名医生，而摄影算是另一个身份。朋友聊天时给我的定位是“受过科学
训练的艺术家”。但现在生活的重心是放在摄影上的。

　　因为是对人体器官的拍摄，很好奇您是如何拿到器官的？拍摄过程是怎么样的？

　　李：我在医院工作，我的医生朋友们做完手术后，允许我拍摄这些东西。我只需要对它们进行拍
摄而不是占有，这并不影响别人的工作。拍摄前，我会准备好拍摄需要的东西，在医院里直接拍摄。

　　您在作品阐述里第一句提到，这是一组有关哲学的作品？

　　李：对，这跟我学生物学的经历有关。接触很多跟生命有关的事物后，就会很自然地开始思考生
命是怎么一回事。了解到人从哪儿来，到哪儿去后，会产生疑惑，发出关于灵魂，关于生命的疑问。
这组作品，也算是我借助影像来表达自己的这个困惑。

　　有没有信奉的哲学体系或者是喜欢的哲学家？

　　李：这方面是没有的。我说的哲学是对于生命的思考。我见过很多的死亡，我拍摄的这些器官，
这些物质，在刚被切下来的时刻，是否带着人的精神或者灵魂？又如何定义我拍摄的这些物质？

　　您如何看待“灵魂”？

　　李：我相信灵魂的存在。这个时代有很多科学解释不了的东西，它们都是非物质的东西。
　　过去我学习科学，总认为科学是万能的。在拿动物做实验，研究生物神经时，都是研究他们的
物质基础。比如你摸它一下，它会有触觉，刺它一下，它会有痛觉。我们总是从物质上研究，但实
际上，科学只是解释了表层的东西，而痛觉肯定是非物质的。
　　过去我们总是想用科学解释一切，但其实科学就是解释不了精神，解释不了灵魂。当我发现这
些困惑没办法用科学解答的时候，这些困惑成了我走向艺术的动力。

　　作品里都是些什么器官？

　　李：这个是我的失误，我以为大家都分辨得出这些器官。这些作品里有阑尾，扁桃体，结肠，
子宫等等。这些器官的名字平常大家都很熟悉，而被拍出来之后，熟悉的东西不一定了解。

　　这涉及到一个问题，您在作品阐述里说自己会尽量不去做阐述，为什么呢？

　　李：我不去做阐述有两个原因，首先这个作品的出发点，是我认为当很多人建立世界观的时候，
总是会有很多疑问，比如这个世界是什么，灵魂是什么，精神到底是什么？这是一个没有标准答案
的问题，我以一种影像的方式来提出这个问题，也是一种思考的方式。从构思到展出的两年时间里，
这组作品让我一直在思考，甚至是很多具体的社会问题，比如在我的作品阐述中提到近期看到的，
三个关于身体伤害的社会新闻。
　　另一方面，这组作品里能够表达的东西太多了，我创造出这组影像是一个方面，另一方面观者
本身的思考也是完成这个艺术创作的一个很重要的环节。所以我觉得不写更好。

　　所以是想要抛出一个好问题？

　　李：对，这个问题确实是一个没有答案的问题，每个人都会有每个人的答案，宗教不同、生活
经历不同的人，会有很多不一样的答案。但这个问题绝对会是个好问题。我通过影像来提出问题，
我觉得是个很好的方式。

　　选择平柔光线，黑白胶片，不进行引导性的文字叙述，是希望让观者尽量客观地观看作品？

　　李：我不希望有视觉上的刺激，使大家的注意力只停留在视觉刺激这个具象的层面。而是希望
大家屏蔽掉这些分散注意力的信息，想得更深入一些。

　　您在医学方面的经历，让我想到颜长江老师在微博上发表对您作品的观感中提到，“摄影师师
就该像医生一样”这句话，该如何解读?

　　李：他说的是一个关于作品的延伸吧。在我们的现实生活中，思想上充满了很多不健康的东西。
作为一名摄影师，面对这些不健康的东西肯定要有自己的态度，就像医生面对病症。这就是摄影师
像医生的地方。对我而言，科学和艺术是一回事。

　　您如何理解今年的连州摄影节 “告别经验”这个主题？

　　李：连州摄影节的“告别经验”是对于现在的摄影现象而言，很多人现在照片越拍越俗套，都在
相互copy，或者copy自己以前的东西。要创造新事物，就要告别旧经验。对我个体而言，我觉得
我在艺术方面的经验还不够多，我要告别过去非艺术的经验，再不断的去体验，去建立艺术的新经
验。

Li Zhaohui: I Believe in the Existence of Soul
Source: http://photo.sina.com.cn/photog/ Sina Picture Author: Li Mengting
【Photographer】Li Zhaohui, a person from Yichang, Hubei. In 1985, he received an education in Peking University, majoring in biology. Afterwards, he has been engaged in medical work. Li Zhaohui's "Specimen" series shoot organs that have been separated from fresh and living human bodies, most of which are cut down in the medical operation. Then, a ruler is placed under the image basis. After a long-term exposure to illness and death, he had all sorts of confusions, which also become a driving force for him to get access to arts. Since then, he has another identity--- “an artist with scientific training.”
Sino Picture made an exclusive interview on Photographer Li Zhaohui to reveal the stories behind the works.
What opportunities do you have to shoot this group of works?
Li: In 1985, I received an education in Peking University, majoring in biology. Afterwards, I have been engaged in medical work for 13 years. These experiences offer me an opportunity to express my own ideas via such a special theme.
Is photographer another identity of you?
Li: Not strictly speaking, I'm a doctor, and photographer is another identity of me. I am positioned as “an artist with scientific training” by my friends. But now, in my daily life, I focus mainly on photographing.
You make photos of human organs. Therefore, I wonder how you get these organs. And what is the shooting process?
Li: I work in hospital and after finishing the operation, my doctors friends allow me to shoot these things. I only need shoot them rather than occupying them, which does not affect the work of others. Besides, before shooting, I will make all the things needed ready, and make shooting directly at hospitals.
In the first sentence of your works introduction, you mentioned it is something about philosophy?
Li：This is because I have studied biological science before. After contacting with so many things about life, quite naturally, I will consider about life, and wonder where human beings come from, and where they go. Therefore, I will ask questions about the soul and the life. This group of works is a way for me to express my confusion via images.
Which philosophy or philosopher do you prefer?
Li: I do not prefer any philosophy or philosopher. My philosophy refers to the consideration about life. I have seen many deaths. Whether there are human beings’ spirits or souls in the organs or the materials at the very moment they are cut? How to define such materials I have shot?
What do you think of the “soul”?
Li: I believe in the existence of the “soul”. In this era, many things cannot be explained by science and they are all non-material things.
In the past, I studied science and I always thought science is almighty. When I did experiments with animals to study biological neural, I studied their material basis. For example, when you touch the animal, it will have a sense of touch; when you prick the animal, it will have a sense of pain. We always make researches from a material perspective. Btu actually, science can only explain superficial things, and the sense of pain is definitely non-material.
In the past, we always explain everything via science, but actually science can explain neither spirits nor souls. When I find that such confusions cannot be explained by science, these confusions become the very driving force for me to ask help for arts.
What organs do you have in you works?
Li: This is something I neglect and I should have thought that we can recognize these organs. There are appendix, tonsils, colon and uterus etc. We are familiar with such names. But when the organs are presented in the form of photos, it is not necessarily for people to know these familiar things.
Here is a question. In your works introduction, you say you will try your best not to make introductions, why?
Li: I do not want to make any explanations for two reasons. Firstly, this is the starting point of this works. I deem that when many people begin to set up a world outlook, usually they will have many questions to ask. For example, what is the world? What is the soul? What on earth are the spirits? These are questions without standard answers. I propose such questions via images, which is also a way of thinking. During the period of over two years from the conception to the exhibition, the group of works makes me keep considering about many things, even some specific social problems. For example, in my works introduction, I mentioned three pieces of latest news about bodily injury.
Secondly, the group of works could express too many things. The image I created is one thing; the individual thinking of the viewers is another thing, which is an essential link to finish the artistic creation. Therefore, I think it will be better not to write anything.
So, you intend to propose a good question?
Li: Yes, this is indeed a question without answer. Everyone will give an answer of his own. People with different religions and different life experiences will offer different answers. But this is absolutely a good question. Asking questions via images, I think, is a good way.
You choose to express the works by smooth and soft light, black and white film and without instructive written descriptions so that viewers can look at the works as objectively as possible. Do you think so?
Li: I do not expect visual stimulus and I do not want you to pay your attention only to visual stimulus at the representational level. Instead, I hope you can shield such distractive information and think further.
Your experiences in medical science remind me of the comments in the microblog made by Teacher Yan Changjiang for your works: “Photographer should work exactly like doctors.” How do you interpret this sentence?
Li: Maybe he means the extension of this works. In reality, there are many unhealthy things in our mind. As a photographer, facing these unhealthy things, I must have attitudes of my own, just like the way a doctor handles the diseases. These are the common points shared by photographers and doctors. To me, science and arts are the same thing.
This year, the topic of Lianzhou Photography Festival is “bidding farewell to experiences”. How do you understand it?
Li: Lianzhou Photography Festival’s “bidding farewell to experiences” is proposed in terms of current photographing phenomena. Many people take photos more and more vulgarly and they copy each other or copy previous works of their own. To create new things, you must bid farewell to old experiences. To me myself, I think my experiences in arts are not so rich. I will bid farewell to the non-artistic experiences in the past, and accumulate new experiences of arts constantly.
Column Editor | Jia Shuo Written by: Li Mengting