李朝晖:用科学的态度对待艺术

来源:http://www.photofans.cn 佳友在线 作者:吴栋 2013年11月28日

摄影师李朝晖来自湖北宜昌,曾就读于北大生物系。他的作品《大体》拍摄的是人体的一部分,并在这
些人体部分之下放置了标尺,以这两者构成每张照片,看似十分简单。
然而,这些简单表象背后的内容似乎又略显复杂,“你看了这些照片有什么感受?”李朝晖问过许多人
,得到的答案也大不相同。对此,李朝晖在文字阐释中并没有明确表述,而是选择把思考留给了观众。
我们也借由这组作品在连州摄影节上展览之际,采访了李朝晖:


photofans:听说你以前是学霸。

李朝晖:还可以,小时候我学习成绩还不错,小学跳过级,高中运气比较好,高考考了个当地的第一名
,理科的,所以就进了北大。

photofans:北大学的什么?

李朝晖:生物学,学生物物理的,但是我们北大生物系很特殊,那个时候协和医科大学基础课都在我们
学校上,协和的那帮人跟我们同窗了三年,我们的课程我感觉跟医学院基本是一致的,解剖什么的都学
到。那个年代,北大的生物技术应该在大学里是排名第一的,学术水平非常高,要考生物特别难。

photofans:什么时候毕业的?

李朝晖:1989年。

photofans:然后就参加工作了?

李朝晖:毕业后我回到宜昌,进了一家生物技术公司,工作了两年。然后去了上海,进了中科院上海分
院去读书,那时还是是生化所,是中国学术水平最高的所,我研究生读的是癌症基因研究。不过读书的
时候,我已经对搞科研这块渐渐没有兴趣了,这大概跟社会风气有关,那时候想要去做实用技术,如何
把生物运用到实物上,去开发药品,要去企业,变更了自己的理想。

photofans:之前的理想是什么?

李朝晖:最开始进大学时是要成为科学家,是因为对生物感兴趣。等我到研究生的阶段就改变自己的理
想了,想要成为企业家,成为一个把科学运用于我们生活的、一个技术转化的人。

photofans:现在你又变成艺术家了。你是如何开始摄影的?

李朝晖:04年的时候,我喜欢上户外,通过户外接触摄影。我当时拜了一个师父,他拍人文纪实,曾经
得过07年《国家地理》全球金奖,叫李风。我就跟着他学了三年,那时候我就把工作稍微放一放,我觉
得摄影太有意思了。他那时是《三峡日报》的摄影部主任,只要有采访我就跟着去。我2007年买的第一
台正规的相机是450D,但不到一年就换成5D2。大概也就两年半,我就用坏一个快门,15万次的,他拍什
么我拍什么,我现在去看存储的硬盘,有七八个。因为我对生物方面感兴趣,喜欢拍野生动物,到鄱阳
湖,洞庭湖拍候鸟,一年去个十次,我觉得太有意思了这个。

photofans:属于爱好。

李朝晖:就是爱好。后来也拍人文的,去采访,印象最深的是一个极其穷的三峡移民,他不是正规移民
,两口子家的三个小孩,家中所有家具都是捡来的。我一直资助一个小孩,现在他读大学了,我还在资
助他,我觉得这特别有意义,也不影响我工作。那时候我的工作已经走向正轨,进了几个硕士,可以独
立工作。
那时还算是玩摄影,但当你按了十几万次二十万张快门以后,就不满足了,觉得自己的技术已经达到一
定层次,逐渐有思路出来,就想表达。这与我们在北大受的训练有关,要有责任感,就是要表达什么,
要给社会什么影响,想更高一个层次。于是后来我又拜了一个师父,做观念摄影的。

photofans:谁?

李朝晖:肖萱安,他前年带我到连州看展,我之前也去过其他摄影节,到了连州感觉特别不一样,我很
喜欢。

photofans:那年的主题是“向着社会的景观”。

李朝晖:对,前年,那时候我已经跟肖萱安拍了一年。在去连州前,我也不知道什么叫景观摄影,但似
乎在没有景观这个概念的时候就已经开始拍景观了。现在回想起来,我自己给它的定义叫“冷风景”,
我觉得我这个人还是比较理性的,我特别喜欢这样类型的,我当时做的一个题目,拍我身边的东西——
长江,我从连州回来以后拍了半年。我去向颜长江讨教,颜长江看了,说你这个太好了。我到现在也不
明白他是不是鼓励我,他说,你在中国拍景观可以拍到前五位,这话把我说的……,我说怎么可能,颜
长江后来把我推荐到了连州去展,我太高兴了。后来段老师(段煜婷,连州摄影节艺术总监)也接受了
我的作品。

photofans:你怎么形容你自己?科学家?艺术家?

李朝晖:我觉得我是受过科学训练的艺术家。去年我去了专家见面会,段老师说,你是科学家,你不要
想那么多,就以科学的态度拍照片,就是好照片。现在这句话我还记在我的本子上。回去以后我就在规
划,这组《大体》里的东西就是我天天见到的,我自己本职工作更是如此。


photofans:你拍的这些器官都是新鲜的?

李朝晖:都是刚切下来的。

photofans:拿到这些器官也挺困难的吧。

李朝晖:是。因为医生防范意识都很强,不愿意这些东西给你拿到,身怕给自己惹麻烦,虽然你可以向
他解释,拍这个东西不是具象化的,不涉及到具体的人,只是个抽象的人的概念,但医生还是怕对他造
成影响。所以拿到这些很难。


photofans:那你怎么拿到这些器官的?

李朝晖:总有理解的。

photofans:这个照片是8×10拍的?

李朝晖:对,我专门为这个买了个8×10。

photofans:对病人来说,也是在告别经验。

李朝晖:可以这么说。

photofans:尺子放上去是为什么?

李朝晖:起先的考虑是为了表明科学的态度。我认识到,科学和艺术是一回事,表现一种科学态度也是
我的立场,因为我对自己的定位是受过科学训练的艺术家,我这个科学训练体现在哪?就体现在这个尺
子上。但是当我拍了几张后回头看,我还是会想这个尺子我到底要不要,经过反复的思考,最后决定这
个尺子是一定要的,它占了我立意的50%,而我的标本是另外50%。我觉得也有些引申的含义让我认为尺
子放在这里是有道理的,它除了表明我对这个事情的态度,还有关社会问题。现在肿瘤跟环境变化,生
存压力,社会动荡都有关系,我这个尺子就是对它的审视,用尺子去度量这个现实。


photofans:但这尺子是有牌子的,它是有身份的尺,一般严谨的作品都会避免这个的出现吧。

李朝晖:这个我也考虑过,但是实在找不到没有牌子的尺,医院用的也是有牌子的。根据我的设想,以
后会用3D打印尺来拍。


photofans:作品具体拍的时候你是怎么做的,有一个台子么?

李朝晖:下面是一张卡纸,我把尺子放在固定位置,把标本放在固定位置,就可以了。

photofans:你一共拍了多少张?

李朝晖:拍了二十几张,这次展了十六张,现在成品是二十二幅,最后的规划是三十幅作品,要到最后
要的器官都拍到为止。

photofans:有哪些要的器官还没拍到么?

李朝晖:心脏,男性生殖器官,这个要等很长时间,可能几年都等不到,这个项目还没有结束。我也想
过拍与人工生殖有关的题材,但这个项目到现在没入手,不敢入手,也实在想不出怎么入手。

photofans:为什么选黑白?

李朝晖:我尝试的时候拍过彩色与黑白,最后抛弃彩色,原因是要去除它的视觉刺激,去除它表象的东
西。我用的光很平,不希望它的质感太强,如果质感太强会将人引导向另外的方向,我希望引导观者仅
仅通过器官本身来看它背后的东西,不要迷恋影像本身,而是要让观者深入背后的东西。


photofans:你的展览每幅作品都没有文字标识,刚才引起了误读。

李朝晖:有人也提出建议,说没有标识会不会有问题,我觉得有误读其实不是很重要,不过这个也有他
的道理,很多器官名称是熟悉的但是影像是不熟悉的,也许标识对认识会更好,这个我也还在思考,到
底要不要,不过这次展览是没有。
这里有一张我想说一下,这个肿瘤下面有根线,因为拿出来的时候有根东西扎住,才能拿出来。它的摆
放是带了情绪的,我拍所有的东西都是很认真的,试图以科学的态度去对待它,但拍了几张很累很累,
看到这个我想轻松一下,然后让它成为气球一样的形式。

photofans:如果按照德国人的思维,这样做似乎不够严谨。

李朝晖:我要不说大家似乎也不会感觉到,的确带了一点点情绪。

图中是李朝晖最喜欢的两张作品(左为结肠,右为肝脏),切割的痕迹表现了外人对生命的干预。

关于李朝晖
湖北宜昌人,1989年毕业于北京大学生物学系,现从事医疗工作。

Li Zhaohui:Treat Arts with a Scientific Attitude

Source: http://www.photofans.cn PhotoFans Author: Wu Dong November 28, 2013

Photographer Li Zhaohui came from Yichang City, Hubei Province and he studied at Department of Biology, Peking University. His works "Specimen" takes photos of a part of the human body and a ruler is placed under each part to form a complete image, which seems very simple.
However, it seems that the contents behind this simple representation are a little bit complex. “What are your feelings after you seeing these photos?” Li Zhaohui asked many people this question and he gets various answers. To this point, Li Zhaohui does not explain much; instead, he chooses to leave viewers this question to think about.
We hereby interviewed Li Zhaohui when his works were exhibited in Lianzhou Photography Festival.

photofans:I heard that you were a top student before.

Li Zhaohui: Alright. I did well in my primary school and I skipped grades. I was lucky in senior high school and in national college entrance examination; I ranked first in local place, of science departments. So I was admitted by Peking University.

photofans:What do you learn in Peking University?

Li Zhaohui: Biological Science and I majored in Biophysics. But in Peking University, the Department of Biology is special. At that time, all the basic courses of Peking Union Medical College were taught in our university. I spent three years together with the classmates from Peking Union Medical College. Our courses are, I deem, the same with the courses of the Medical College and we would learn dissection or something like that. In that ear, the biotechnology of Peking University ranked first in those universities. Besides, the academic level was extremely high and it was rather difficult to be admitted by the Department of Biology.

Photofans: When did you graduate?

Li Zhaohui: 1989

photofans:Then you began to work?

Li Zhaohui: I went back to Yichang and worked in a biotechnology company for years. Then I went to Shanghai and studied in Shanghai Branch of Chinese Academy of Sciences for a master degree, which was a biochemistry office then, an office of highest academic level in China. There I made researches on cancer genes. But even at time when i was a postgraduate, I gradually lost my interests in scientific research. Probably this is related to general mood of society. At that time, I want to invest in operative technology, and I wonder how to apply biotechnology into operative technology and develop drugs in enterprises and I changed my ideals.

photofans:What are your previous ideals?

Li Zhaohui: At the very beginning when I was admitted by the university, I wanted to be a scientist because I was interest in biology. But later when I was a postgraduate, I changed my ideals and I wanted to be an entrepreneur, one who can apply science into our life, one who can transfer technology.

Photofans: Now you are an artist. How do you start your photography?

Li Zhaohui: In 2004, I loved outdoor activities where I got to know photography. I learned from a teacher named Li Feng, a global gold prize winner of National Geography, and he mainly took documentary photos. I learned from him for three years and at that time I made a slight effort to do my original work. I felt that photography was terrific. He was then the director of the Photography Department of Three Gorges Daily, and I would follow him whenever there was an interview. In 2007, I bought the first professional camera 450D, which was changed to 5D2 in less than one year. In about two years and a half, I wore out a shutter of 150,000 times, and I shot whatever he shot and now I found that there were seven or eight hard disks to store the images. I am interested in biology and I like to take photos of wild animals. I went to Poyang Lake and Dongting Lake to take photos of migrant birds for ten times a year. I feel this is very interesting.

photofans: It is an interest.

Li Zhaohui: It is an interest. Later I took also took some humanistic photos and I made interviews therefore. And a poverty-stricken migrant from Three Gorges Area impressed me most. He was not an official migrant and he and his wife had three children. All of their furniture was picked up. I have kept aiding one child there and he is now receiving an education in a university and I am aiding him now. I think this of great significance. Meanwhile, this does not affect my work as well. At that time, my work had moved toward the right path and I recruited three postgraduates, who can work independently.
At that time, I was merely a player of photography. But when you pressed down the shutter for 100,000 or 200,000 times, you will not feel satisfied any more. You would feel that your skills have reached to a certain level. You would gradually have a train of thought of your own, and you want to express yourself. This is related to the education I received in Peking University. One shall have a sense of responsibility: you must know what you want to express and what influences you want to exert on society, and finally you want to improve yourself to a higher level. Later I learnt from another teacher, who engaged in conceptual photography.

photofans: Who?

Li Zhaohui: Xiao Xuan’an. The year before last year, he took me to Lianzhou to attend the photography festival. I went there, which gave me a special and different feeling. I loved it very much.

photofans:The topic of that year is the “landscape toward society”.

Li Zhaohui: Yes, the year before last year, I followed Xiao Xuan’an for one year to take photos. Before I went to Lianzhou, I did not know what landscape photography is. It seems that people begin to take landscape photos before the concept of “landscape” is invented. In retrospect, I myself define it as “cold landscape”. I think I am a rational personal and I love this type of thing very much. I engaged in a topic then, and I took photos of things nearby ——Yangtze River. After I came back from Lianzhou, I kept taking such photos for half of a year. I sought help from Yan Changjiang. He looked at my photos and said your works are terrific. Until now I do not know whether he was encouraging me or not and he said “you are among the top 5 photographers among China”. “How is it possible?” said I. Yan Changjiang later recommended me for Lianzhou Exhibition and I was very glad. Later Teacher Duan (Duan Yuting, the Art Director of Lianzhou Photography Festival) also accepted my works.

photofans:How do you describe yourself, a scientist or an artist?

Li Zhaohui: I think that I was an artist with scientific training. Last year I attended the experts meeting. There, Teacher Duan said: “you are scientist and you’d better not think too much. To take photos with a scientific attitude and you will get good photos.” Until now, I have kept this sentence in my notebook. I began to make a planning when I came back, and the items involved in the Specimen are things I see every day. And I see them more frequently in my professional work.

photofans:Are the organs you shot fresh?

Li Zhaohui: They are all cut immediately.

photofans:It is difficult to get such organs.

Li Zhaohui: Yes. This is because doctors have a strong precaution consciousness and they are reluctant to give you these things for fear of trouble. You may explain to them that these things are not shot concretely and the shooting will not involve a specific person. The persons mentioned are only persons in abstract sense. But the doctors still worry about troubles. Therefore, it is rather difficult to get such things.

photofans:Then, how do you get such organs?

Li Zhaohui: There always someone who can understand you.

photofans:Such photos are shot in 8×10?

Li Zhaohui: Yes, I bought an 8×10 camera especially for this.

photofans:To patients, this is also a kind of bidding farewell to experiences.

Li Zhaohui: It can be said so.

photofans:What is the ruler for?

Li Zhaohui: At the very beginning, I want to show a scientific attitude. I realize that science and arts is one thing. To show a scientific attitude is also my standpoint. My positioning of my standpoint is that I was an artist with scientific training. Where my scientific training is embodied? It is embodied exactly in my ruler. After I took several photos, I wondered whether I wanted this ruler or not? After repeated thinking, I decided that the ruler shall be kept. It accounts for 50% of my conception, and my specimen accounts for another 50%. I think there are also some extended meanings, which makes it necessary to place the ruler there. It shows my attitudes toward this phenomenon and moreover, it is related to social problems. Now, cancers are related to environmental changes, survival pressure and social turbulence. My ruler stands for an examination, and the ruler is used to measure this reality.

photofans:But this ruler is of a certain brand. It is a ruler with an identity. Generally, cautious works will avoid the identity, right?

Li Zhaohui: I have considered this point. But actually I cannot find a ruler without an identity. The rulers used in hospitals are also rulers with a brand. In accordance with my planning, I will take photos with a 3D printing ruler later.

Photofans: How about the specific process of shooting? Is there a platform?

Li Zhaohui: A piece of paper jam is placed under the organ and I place the ruler and the specimen respectively in a fixed position. Everything will be OK.

photofans:How many photos do you take?

Li Zhaohui: I have taken over 20 photos and I display 16 photos this time. Now, I have 22 finished photos. I plan to take 30 photos ultimately when all the organs are included.

photofans:Are there some organs you have not shot yet?

Li Zhaohui: Heart and male reproductive organs. It takes a rather long time to wait. Maybe I cannot get it after several years of waiting. But this program has not been finished. I also want to take photos of themes on artificial reproduction. But I have not started this project until now, and I dare not dare to start it and I do not know how to start it.

photofans:Why do you choose black and white?

Li Zhaohui: I tried colored photos and black and white photos before, but finally I gave up colored photos because I wanted to remove visual stimulus or remove the presentational things. I hope to lead the viewers to observe things behind it and not get addicted to the images themselves. On the contrast, I want the viewers see through things behind it.

photofans:Each piece of works you displayed has no text logo, which is misinterpreted right now.

Li Zhaohui: It is suggested that it is okay without logos. I think misinterpretation is not that important. But it is also reasonable to display the organs with logos. People may be familiar with many names of the organs but they do not familiar with the images. Maybe it is better if there is a logo. I am still considering this question now. But on this exhibition, there are no logos.
Here is a picture I want to mention (as below). There is a thread under the tumor, because it can only be taken out by a thread. It is placed with a sentiment. I take photos of things rather carefully and I try to treat them with a scientific attitude. Accordingly, I am rather tired after I have taken several photos. When I see it, I want to relax myself and present it in the form of balloons.

photofans:If judging the photos in accordance with German’s thoughts, it seems not so cautious.

Li Zhaohui: It seems that people will not realize this point if I do not point it out. Actually it is with a little bit of sentiment.

About Li Zhaohui
From Yichang City, Hubei Province, he graduated from the Department of Biology, Peking University and he is now engaging in medical work.